L046 Zebra Pleco - Cheek Odontodes and Sexing

[celticfish]

my own experience on the cheek odontodes has been this...
i got my group of L046 sept '06.
when i got them i had two rather confirmed males (deliberate selection).
you can clearly see good growth of pectoral and cheek odontodes.

sometime in march'07 the alpha male started his breeding.
this went on for four consecutive broods at 24 to 26 day intervals.
however, after the fourth brood (may) he stopped.

i couldn't see much of him for a couple of weeks.
when i did see him i was shocked.
he was all scrawny (sunken stomach) and his cheek odontodes were missing (macham white tiger... :p).
just this past month he has recovered and his odontodes are lush again.
time about 4.5 to 5 months to regrow cheek odontodes.

i have some theories about this...
(there are other possibilities but these came to mind.)

1) he got an infection that lead to his scrawny look and his odontodes dropped off.

2) he got scrawny after the consecutive breeding and had a fight with beta-male.
fighting lead to his odontodes dropping off.

3) he went "out of season" and his cheek odontodes dropped off.
(i think i read a post somewhere in PF on this)

if the theory of odontodes dropping when the fish is "out of season" is true then this will add another uncertainty to sexing.
in other words, newly obtained fish may not be in season and cheek odontodes would not be a good indicator.
in my above experience it would take the fish at least 5 months for growth to return.
hence you may not be able to sex the fish for some months after obtaining them.

i would like to hear any comments on what my fish experienced or from other who had similar experience.

(Mods - if you think this should be split to a new thread please do so. i'm not sure if i went off topic... :p )

[Edmundo]

i have some theories about this...
(there are other possibilities but these came to mind.)

1) he got an infection that lead to his scrawny look and his odontodes dropped off.

2) he got scrawny after the consecutive breeding and had a fight with beta-male.
fighting lead to his odontodes dropping off.

3) he went "out of season" and his cheek odontodes dropped off.
(i think i read a post somewhere in PF on this)

if the theory of odontodes dropping when the fish is "out of season" is true then this will add another uncertainty to sexing.
in other words, newly obtained fish may not be in season and cheek odontodes would not be a good indicator.
in my above experience it would take the fish at least 5 months for growth to return.
hence you may not be able to sex the fish for some months after obtaining them.

i would like to hear any comments on what my fish experienced or from other who had similar experience.

(Mods - if you think this should be split to a new thread please do so. i'm not sure if i went off topic... :p )


unlikely it is due to infection..... frequent breeding over period of time and fights among male more possible, IMO.


using odontodes to sex plecos is by far the more consistant method for all plecos. Nonetheless, body shape, thickness of the first pectoral hard ray, belly markings (i.e L260 female is belly and Male has marking), the anus... can aso be use in the event where odontodes are less obvious.

[akoh]

Apart from using the odontodes for sexing, another method is by looking at the top view of body and the pectoral fins. :)

[Gecko]

Apart from using the odontodes for sexing, another method is by looking at the top view of body and the pectoral fins. :)

The challenge with sexing zebras is that a combination of outward appearance must be used. I think wait for Benny's articles: very complete with visuals.

Odontodes alone is tought(female also have, but not so bushy and wont grow pass the pectoral fins, male as irwin pointed out, can drop chew chew due to fights or disease). So add on this visual with what akoh mentioned is best. Largi best see the susoected female go inside a male cave and when she comes out, net her, and when confirmed got eggs in the cave, 100% confirmed female:D If blanks, then maybe juvenile male trying his luck.:D

[akoh]

Largi best see the susoected female go inside a male cave and when she comes out, net her, and when confirmed got eggs in the cave, 100% confirmed female:D If blanks, then maybe juvenile male trying his luck.:D
Wah ! bro, like that have to glue to the tank day and nite leh ! :D

[celticfish]

Another question on odontodal growth...
will sub-dominant males eventually have odontodal as lush as the alpha-male?

a) i have noticed that cheek odontodal growth in sub-dominant males can be as lush and the alpha-male.

b) however, i'm not so sure about the pectoral growth.
the two males initial males in my colony were bought with good pectoral growth.
however in the newer "males" they don't show good growth.
but their size compared to the above two are just as large, if not larger!
i can tell these are "firm" males from the widen head from the top view.
(unless i'm really screwing-up here in IDing the wide/spade shape of male fish!)

this leads me to believe pectoral growth is a key "lady-killer" tool for them... :D
i think this is applicable, generally, to all plecos.
btw i'm a "zero" on practically all other plecos.
i have only read up and keep L046... :p
anyone with comments?

[Edmundo]

Another question on odontodal growth...
will sub-dominant males eventually have odontodal as lush as the alpha-male?

a) i have noticed that cheek odontodal growth in sub-dominant males can be as lush and the alpha-male.

b) however, i'm not so sure about the pectoral growth.
the two males initial males in my colony were bought with good pectoral growth.
however in the newer "males" they don't show good growth.
but their size compared to the above two are just as large, if not larger!
i can tell these are "firm" males from the widen head from the top view.
(unless i'm really screwing-up here in IDing the wide/spade shape of male fish!)

this leads me to believe pectoral growth is a key "lady-killer" tool for them... :D
i think this is applicable, generally, to all plecos.
btw i'm a "zero" on practically all other plecos.
i have only read up and keep L046... :p
anyone with comments?

i do agree on this point...... male lion with lushing mane.... tends to be eaiser to attracts more female to mate and reproduces its off-spring..... just like goat too..... bull..... etc.....

[SoToNgMaN]

i do agree on this point...... male lion with lushing mane.... tends to be eaiser to attracts more female to mate and reproduces its off-spring..... just like goat too..... bull..... etc.....
like that moustache man can attract many women lah ..

then got many leg hair can or not? *grinZ*

[Edmundo]

like that moustache man can attract many women lah ..

then got many leg hair can or not? *grinZ*

so you think my leg hair grow for nothing? oni if i have chest hair.... i dare tell u..... fomidable!

Human and animals somehow or rather should behave similarily... but due to civilization, we wear clothing and are cleanly shaved........ back to time then (dinosar age)..... u think pple with white tiger can get women? i bet not. :)