Wood, truth or myth?

[lyh]

There are numerous articles out there citing that Panaques should be fed vegetable stuffs as they are herbivores and that wood made up a large part of their diet (as found in their intestines) hence feeding them meaty stuffs long term would shorten their lifespan etc. However how true are these comments?

I personally think that it is only half true. According to an article, wood is found to have occupied about 90+% of the space of a panaque intestine after he disected a panaque. As we all know, wood is fibre hence it could not be digested easily therefore could the prescence of it be due to the fact that animal protein could be digested more easily hence what is leftover in its intestine is only wood therefore his findings? :confused: Could the actual fact be that panaques in the wild consume 30% animal protein 70% wood or even a higher ratio for animal protein?

I am not trying to sway your thinking to feeding panaques vege is nonsense but I have achieved good results with feeding them carnivoruous pellets hence all these ambiguity :confused:

What are your views?

[Edmundo]

There are numerous articles out there citing that Panaques should be fed vegetable stuffs as they are herbivores and that wood made up a large part of their diet (as found in their intestines) hence feeding them meaty stuffs long term would shorten their lifespan etc. However how true are these comments?

I personally think that it is only half true. According to an article, wood is found to have occupied about 90+% of the space of a panaque intestine after he disected a panaque. As we all know, wood is fibre hence it could not be digested easily therefore could the prescence of it be due to the fact that animal protein could be digested more easily hence what is leftover in its intestine is only wood therefore his findings? :confused: Could the actual fact be that panaques in the wild consume 30% animal protein 70% wood or even a higher ratio for animal protein?

I am not trying to sway your thinking to feeding panaques vege is nonsense but I have achieved good results with feeding them carnivoruous pellets hence all these ambiguity :confused:

What are your views?


Some veg do have high protein contain such is pea or beans... but in amazon where g0t pea and neans? coffee beans maybe have lar..... i do agree with you, protein has to be part of their diet too... otherwise how to grow big? Panaques are on of the largest plecos and without protein i doubt it can grow in certain extend. Afterall, plecos are scavenger and they just munch on anything that come its way.... my philosophy still stands... "There is no bad food, but there is bad diet."

Nice thread you started.... Well Done! :)

[T1000]

my observation is that all plecos (herbi or carni) will just munch on anything u feed. i have not seen my pseuda ignoring algae wafer nor tiger panaque rejecting hikari pellets. guess end of the day; a balance diet is important.

another observation is: at other timing when no food is provided, they will all smooch on the dw, tank wall [especially adonis & gibby] or any other surfaces.

[lyh]

my observation is that all plecos (herbi or carni) will just munch on anything u feed. i have not seen my pseuda ignoring algae wafer nor tiger panaque rejecting hikari pellets. guess end of the day; a balance diet is important.

another observation is: at other timing when no food is provided, they will all smooch on the dw, tank wall [especially adonis & gibby] or any other surfaces.

Bro for your information, the main ingredient of most algae wafer on the market is fish meal and vege stuff comes in next. I have been feeding my panaques for the past one year on vege and I noticed their growth to be slow and they don't look as fantastic as when I started to feed them a mixed diet with carni pellets a few months back. ;) Maybe like what you said a balanced diet is important.

[Gecko]

http://pages.towson.edu/nelson/Panaque/manaus.html

I think that the above scientific study is very important, in the study, metabolic rate was not altered on wood only diet, which in short, means that panaques have evolved into a wood eating creature, as evidenced by their teeth structure as well...

Two leaders in the field, Shane from PLC and A Japanese Gentleman (whom I forgot his name right now - he runs catfish blues website) have both raised Panaques on wood only diets and reported no ill effects and healthy specimens. In fact, those fed on animal protein they said, will suffer from digestive issues and sudden deaths are reported within 5 years....

As a hobbist, we are tempted to feed our royals, to accerelate growth etc, the question is are we doing more harm in the mid to long term? Panaques dietary demand is unique and rare...imagine having a royal in a tank with DW, and the only husbandry involved is water change and a good filteration and aeration system?!!! Scientific evidence points to that as the best setup for panaques, period.

Realistically, when the fish feed in the wild, with the wood, they would also ingest insects, larvae, algae, etc but 80%+ is wood. I used to feed algae wafers only twice in a week to my royals, and I have 3 types of DW in there.

Hope this is useful. It is indeed a simple exercise to have a maybe 3" L190 in a 2 footer with lots of DW and a good Eheim Pro 1 and not ever have to supplement with anything else....anybody?

[akoh]

Bro, think his nick is Panaque :D

[lyh]

http://pages.towson.edu/nelson/Panaque/manaus.html

I think that the above scientific study is very important, in the study, metabolic rate was not altered on wood only diet, which in short, means that panaques have evolved into a wood eating creature, as evidenced by their teeth structure as well...

Two leaders in the field, Shane from PLC and A Japanese Gentleman (whom I forgot his name right now - he runs catfish blues website) have both raised Panaques on wood only diets and reported no ill effects and healthy specimens. In fact, those fed on animal protein they said, will suffer from digestive issues and sudden deaths are reported within 5 years....

As a hobbist, we are tempted to feed our royals, to accerelate growth etc, the question is are we doing more harm in the mid to long term? Panaques dietary demand is unique and rare...imagine having a royal in a tank with DW, and the only husbandry involved is water change and a good filteration and aeration system?!!! Scientific evidence points to that as the best setup for panaques, period.

Realistically, when the fish feed in the wild, with the wood, they would also ingest insects, larvae, algae, etc but 80%+ is wood. I used to feed algae wafers only twice in a week to my royals, and I have 3 types of DW in there.

Hope this is useful. It is indeed a simple exercise to have a maybe 3" L190 in a 2 footer with lots of DW and a good Eheim Pro 1 and not ever have to supplement with anything else....anybody?

This article is one of the first few articles I saw online when I just started out plecoing and has been following it religiously until recently. In the past I use to feed only vegetables on alternate days, however I realised that by following this diet the chews of panaques seem to be thinner and shorter compared to those panaques that just arrived from Brazil and has decided to do an experiment by feeding them animal protein food twice or thrice a week. With this regime, the chews are growing longer and thicker compared to the past. This sparkled the thought of what could be the actual component of panaques diet in the wild. Is there a possibility that panaques consume more animal protein than what we have thought it to be? :confused: :D

Bro, think his nick is Panaque :D

Bro you mean the nick used in PF? :D

[akoh]

Bro you mean the nick used in PF? :D

Think, in PC too . :)

[Gecko]

Its "panaqs".